Archived Posts For 2007 September

controversial quote of the week: Mark Driscoll

Posted on September 7, 2007 by Geoff Matheson 
Filed Under Church, Quotes | 4 Comments

From the always-controversial Mark Driscoll:

“The reason they (young men) don’t go to most churches is because they could take the pastor and can’t respect a guy in a lemon-yellow sweater, sipping decaf and talking about his feelings.”

(The Resurgence - The Right Hand of Fellowship, Hat tip to planet telex)

Discuss.

John Piper on post-modernism

Posted on September 5, 2007 by Geoff Matheson 
Filed Under Emerging Questions | 9 Comments


(Hat Tip to Rick)

John Piper (who would certainly qualify as a non-amateur theologian) describes what he sees as the danger of embracing a post-modern mindset. I agree with a fair chunk of what Piper is saying here: the dangers of throwing out the good that has been built up by the institutional church and settling for a vague spirituality/mysticism that has no beliefs. But equally dangerous is a reliance on the things Piper describes as “religion”: propositions, doctrines, books, traditions, commitments and disciplines, where they are separated from a genuine interaction with God. Because just as the post-modern mindset has this danger of becoming individualistic and consumeristic religion where self is the idol, the danger of relying wholly on our doctrines becomes the sort of “belief in the belief of God” that Alan Hirsch has talked about recently over in a (pretty controversial) post over at Forgotten Ways.

The comparison with my Evangelical brethren is that I think they can be described as beliving in belief in God. A whole set of ideas, dogma, and doctrine provides an screen of objectivity between the believer and God. Perhaps this is a way of mediating the ‘danger’ of the God experience. But while theological understanding is gained, immediacy is lost through the objectification of God and the God experience. The loss is great.

It seems to me that Piper wants to create an “objective concrete, clear Jesus Christ” that flies in the face of the way Jesus taught, and the things we know about Jesus. We see only in part, and can only speak out of that which we know. Pretending that we’re the only people who know the truth is a furphy and can come across as intellectually dishonest.

But having said that: I know that John Piper knows a lot more than I do. Fortunately, so do you. So tell me where I’m wrong. :)

how much should you put up with?

Posted on September 3, 2007 by Geoff Matheson 
Filed Under Church | 7 Comments

About a year ago I was chatting with a pastor from interstate, and chatting about his church. He was describing the way that his church had been planted as a result of a difference in theological approach. Apparently the group left on good terms, and it sounds like the whole situation went as well as could be expected, but it planted a thought which has bugged me incessantly ever since: what theological concepts do I hold to tightly enough that I could no longer be a part of a church who disagreed with that principle? I mean, I’ve got some pretty key simple ones:

But after those, there are a few things I’m not sure I’d put up with in my faith community: some big, fat obvious ones being stuff like speaking in tongues or baptism as a condition of salvation and financial riches as an indicator of faith. Overall, I think that at least puts me in a relatively accepting place.

I guess the bigger underlying question is this: to what extent should you stay in a church whose theological direction you disagree with? I must admit that at the moment this question is purely theoretical: I don’t have any big points of difference at all with the theology espoused in my church, but I’m intrigued to hear whether that line would be. Have you ever left a church because of a disagreement on theology? Or are there people who have stayed in a church they felt called to despite being in conflict with the ideas being preached? Let me know.

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